Disconnect between Players and Staff

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Anon420
Posts: 4
Joined: August 19th, 2017, 4:11 am

Disconnect between Players and Staff

Post by Anon420 » August 23rd, 2017, 7:02 am

<rant>

Aaaaaaaalright, let's get this s tarted. There's been a trend on this server, especially recently, that me and a fair bit of other people have been noticing. When I first joined roughly 10,000 years ago, there was a strong connection between staff, admins, and players. This is one of the main reasons I stayed on for as long as I did. Mind you, this is back when sissy1985, saraholmested, bobetholomew, savioursoul, and Oban were... well.. relevant and respected. It was like this for a while, and then, suddenly, drama. A scandal so bad it resulted in the head-mod being demoted, and another moderator being fired. This marked the beginning of the rift between players and staff. People's trust in moderators began to waiver. A new order was assigned, a trusted mod being put promoted to head-mod, a new trainee or two added, and the admin team remaining pretty much the same. Savioursoul, who was promoted to head-mod, left the server, for reasons I don 't remember. This began what I feel was one of the lowest points in this server's history. Drama spread like wildfires, people who had been playing for years sucked up into it, getting themselves banned, and dragging people along with is. This is when I really started to feel a disconnect between mods and players. I, too, was part of this vicious cycle, getting myself banned (And, thankfully, appealed) in the process of it all. Meanwhile, the head-mod at the time, whose username then was kmona550, was someone I did not trust in the slightest. He treated me, the moderators, and many other players poorly. The admins seemed to not care about any of this, widening the gap between players and staff. He resigned, and we began to rebuild what was left of a corrupted circle of greed and needless drama, more or less repairing what damage was done by the "dark ages". Over the next two years, our admin team was reduced down to only one admin, and the moderators were being replaced rapidly, and it seemed like many trusted moderators were resigning without any warning. Once I became a mod, I learned exactly why. You see, after the "dark ages" of the server, the corruption and drama never really left. It was covered up, left behind the scenes. The shambles of our mod team was lead by people who logged on maybe once a month, and one leader in particular had no intentions of hiding their blatant favoritism towards certain staff members. I decided to resign from staff. Although the reasoning, at the time, was that i was busy with school, that was a lie because I was afraid of saying why I really left. I was tired of the corruption. It was blatant, and infuriating. Time has passed since then, and the disconnect between players and staff has grown so much it seems like there isn't a connection anymore. Nothing seems like it's being accomplished. Admins rarely interact with players anymore. They say that things are happening "behind the scenes" but nothing ever seems to get done. Normally this is the part where I say that I don't hold it against anyone and that I'm sure it's some misunderstanding. I understand perfectly well. I've seen what actually happens, and let me tell you this. Whatever "behind the scenes" they're telling you about isn't happening. The lack of communication even between admins in moderators is astonishing. Communication is so poor it has led to the resignation/dismissal of many moderators, including myself. Nothing gets done because nobody on the admin team has the motivation to do it. The moderators genuinely care about the server, but they don't have enough power to do what the admins refuse to do. And they, like many others before them, grow tired of it, and leave. The staff team is merely a hollow shell, there's no foundation, organization, scheduling, "behind the scenes", or any of that. It's a facade to keep the players happy while they struggle to get some of the most basic things done. What happened? How did we get to this point, and is there any real way to reverse it? Truth be told, I don't know. I haven't ever knows. All I know is that I'm really tired of how lackluster things have become, it seems like staff are hardly ever involved with anything anymore, and that's because there is no structure to the staff team.

</rant>

Dubbie
Posts: 6
Joined: August 21st, 2017, 10:32 pm
Location: Britain

Re: Disconnect between Players and Staff

Post by Dubbie » August 23rd, 2017, 11:20 am

Well, not that I know enough about this server personally, in comparison to other servers I've played on, so far the staff have seemed much friendlier and more involved than alot others. Even in comparison to (may I dare say) a much larger server(World Of Keralis) with what used to be a player base of roughly 7500 players each week (on creative, towny, and survival), this sever's staff setup seems like it has structure and possibly less drama too! One of the things you do mention however is the fact that
Nothing gets done because nobody... has the motivation to do it.
this may actually be a factor of timezones, since already I know that the distribution of admins around the world is quite wide and varied, this can cause problems as someone living in Europe may need to confirm something with another admin/mod in Australia, which would mean either one of the staff would have to be up at a ridiculous time in order to spark communication. Additionally as far as connection to staff goes, as soon as a server gets a decent player base (20 people daily) the staff will have more important things to do (such as server wide opperations, or creating mini-games and producing new features on/for the server). Also remember they may want to enjoy the server themselves.

Its cool that you've been mod in the past, and a real shame that you decided to resign for the reason you did. Believe it or not its quite a regular occurence on minecraft servers that there's drama now and then, I guess you'll just have to deal with it :P,

_Dubbie_

Previous ign's:

SaltySeaDog (BuilderOasis) [Dead]
KingFroggo (World of Keralis)[Dieing]
SirFroggo (World of Keralis)[Same^]

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Ross
Moderator
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Re: Disconnect between Players and Staff

Post by Ross » August 23rd, 2017, 12:58 pm

Hey look,
It's Rosslyn again.

[Yeah, basically I wrote a novel but the points I wanted to cover are here and are made. If you don't wish to read just skip to the very bottom to the conclusion where the main point of this giant reply is made.]

Anywho. Where to start, where to start. Alright. So this is gonna take a while but needs to be said. I'm normally the silent guy in the corner that just watches drama play out, but I've seen a lot of drama break out in the server with my 10+ months, and other things carrying on shamelessly. I am to the point I wish to say my view on this matter no matter how long it is or how others may feel.
Drama spread like wildfires, people who had been playing for years sucked up into it, getting themselves banned, and dragging people along with is. This is when I really started to feel a disconnect between mods and players.
As much as I hate, hate this. This is human nature and people simply feed off drama. It's a form of pure amusement that goes in two different paths. The people involve get 'rewards'. Hatred of the other party, feeling of better ego, and of course attention that they are seeking. The other path is those who watch. It can show that one party will be willing to go out of their way to start something, cause fear, look down on and so forth. The worse thing that each party and path can have is that it's simply entertaining to watch, see, hear on TeamSpeak or read in the chat on the server itself. Though don't get me wrong, it's not respectful and it's not something players to mods to Admins to Clowner, himself to have to put up with. Just a view on why people are interested in drama, start it and like it.
Meanwhile, the head-mod at the time, whose username then was kmona550, was someone I did not trust in the slightest. He treated me, the moderators, and many other players poorly. The admins seemed to not care about any of this, widening the gap between players and staff.
Each server, each platform from MMORPGS to just multiplayer team up over PS4 and Steam, you will see this. There will always be this one person that will use Modship or ownership or so forth to an advantage of believe they are god-like or can get away with things that you would not be able to as a player. Sadly, I've seen this own Clownercraft myself. Worse when I see players believe this corrupted view towards Mods because they are more liked. ClownerCraft and any other game that has groups or servers like Don't Starve Together has this ruling need or trying to out do and belittle people to a point that it can get pretty abusive. During this case if an Admin, doesn't do anything the players should report them and trust the owner and the other mods enough to be able to step up and actually determined if they should be demoted or removed all together. Sadly being human emotions will get in this way like how you see family business having issues with hiring their own sister or brother. A sever and the mods who speak together become a family and close knit circle. It's natural and happens no matter where you are; video game to real life. You click with people or you simply don't and those you click with you hang on to.
I was tired of the corruption. It was blatant, and infuriating. Time has passed since then, and the disconnect between players and staff has grown so much it seems like there isn't a connection anymore. Nothing seems like it's being accomplished. Admins rarely interact with players anymore. They say that things are happening "behind the scenes" but nothing ever seems to get done
Like in the work force, I've seen people who are promoted to high tiers not wish to talk to players or people at the bottle. They think they are above the rules of the job and this case a server and therefore skip even meets. This is the same situation. There are people who will always look at think they above responsibility due to titles. And then worse those who forget their duty and push it to lower tiers because it's not 'of their standards'. I'll be blunt some times the saying, 'things are happening behind the scenes' is just as well as saying, 'we'll get to it tomorrow' Tomorrow comes and never happens. A stalling reply basically but looking at this sever and what is trying to accomplish then you have to put faith in the server and that the 'behind the scenes' is private matters and is being worked on. There will always, always be true Mods out there with the bad apples.
What happened? How did we get to this point, and is there any real way to reverse it? Truth be told, I don't know.
Drama and human nature happened. Getting to this point is just reaching stages of a business and always will have conflict but also with each conflict it grows and should be able to be looked at, studied, changed and look for a way to improve and move forward. The real way to reverse is people willing to actually step up and not tolerate those around them. Many things has to be considered about this sever and first is the vast age range. I've seen an eight year old to a forty year old. Different age groups will clash with age groups and therefore maturity levels will make a huge different and experience. Though I'm not using this as an excuse, this hits a impact explaining what being a Mod or Admin is like to a eight year old to someone who is in there mid-thirties. It's responsibility of a family. [Which someone with a kid will understand faster.] This is how ever server should be viewed below.* The Elder is to give advice and guide to the adults the adults in return give this same advice to the adults who carrying on the responsibility to adults are to guide the teenagers that act out once in a blue moon. The adults are to straighten the teenagers out. The teenagers watch over the children when the adults are away and the elder is to busy and tired to do it theirself. Then it gets more complex like adults can be wrong and there for corrected by the wisdom of the elder. The teenagers can be right while an adult is wrong but the adults should be at the point in their guiding of this nest [server] to be able to see that and change for the impact that will have on the teenagers and more so on the children [players]. A sever is a family and will only stay a family if people can see this as well. So the fix is simple. Everyone dividing up will crumble and the server will burn or die out again like was mention above of the 'dark ages'. So one unit.
  • *The Server Owner = The Elder
    *The Admins = The adults.
    *The Mods = The teenagers
    *Players [Not ranked, I mean all.] = The children
In conclusion, this sever is not dead. This server is not breaking and it's surely not dieing. Yes, it needs improvement but if something is to have such highs standards and go out of their way to keep the peace or the strong view and rep ClownerCraft has for itself then yes, it will be a while and it will take time. People will have to step up and people will have to be harsh when the need to be, have a spine when they need to have one and be gentle and caring and when they have. But never look down on this server's potential and possibility as a large family for you seen it recover once, maybe twice and a third time with what has happen currently on the sever just within a week. This server is strong and I have full faith that it'll grow and grow to be one of the top server's. And it will only do so together not divided.
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Snow
Posts: 3
Joined: June 24th, 2017, 5:53 pm

Re: Disconnect between Players and Staff

Post by Snow » August 23rd, 2017, 2:39 pm

I agree greatly with many points of this main post as I've been staff twice, about 2-3 years apart and am one of, if not the, longest running player on ClownerCraft. I am also one the moderators from the time of the start of the so called "dark ages" having been a mod for around 6 - 8 months *with* sissy, saviorsoul, oban, and others.
A clear point I want to make is that half the mod team and Clowner himself seem to really be the only members of staff doing really anything. Some issues have been brought up in the past to an admin who was on a lot and nothing had been done. Not only is there a disconnect between staff and players, admins and mods, but also mods and mods, and admins and admins.

I must say you *cannot* blame this issue on "human nature" yes it's a thing but it can be controlled. You also can't blame it on time zones as months of only few things happening is far long enough for anyone around the world to discuss things. And saying that staff doesn't have "more important" things to do because we're not a "big server" is a *terrible* thing to say. There are always important things to do, watching chat, doing tickets, dealing with griefers and hackers, discussing issues, and *Interacting With The Player Base* most of which doesn't happen excluding most of the mods.

The server has not died, yes, but it will continue to show signs of dying if things are not changed within the staff team (be it staff members itself, guidelines, morals, etc. Whatever needs to happen). The server had once had a much larger regular amount of players and due to the growing disconnect between admins with mods and players and some mods with players has lessened greatly.

*I do not want CLC to die, this place is a home to me and I love the community. The staff team just needs to sort things out, and soon*

Dubbie
Posts: 6
Joined: August 21st, 2017, 10:32 pm
Location: Britain

Re: Disconnect between Players and Staff

Post by Dubbie » August 23rd, 2017, 3:19 pm

Snow wrote:
August 23rd, 2017, 2:39 pm
I agree greatly with many points of this main post as I've been staff twice, about 2-3 years apart and am one of, if not the, longest running player on ClownerCraft. I am also one the moderators from the time of the start of the so called "dark ages" having been a mod for around 6 - 8 months *with* sissy, saviorsoul, oban, and others.
A clear point I want to make is that half the mod team and Clowner himself seem to really be the only members of staff doing really anything. Some issues have been brought up in the past to an admin who was on a lot and nothing had been done. Not only is there a disconnect between staff and players, admins and mods, but also mods and mods, and admins and admins.

I must say you *cannot* blame this issue on "human nature" yes it's a thing but it can be controlled. You also can't blame it on time zones as months of only few things happening is far long enough for anyone around the world to discuss things. And saying that staff doesn't have "more important" things to do because we're not a "big server" is a *terrible* thing to say. There are always important things to do, watching chat, doing tickets, dealing with griefers and hackers, discussing issues, and *Interacting With The Player Base* most of which doesn't happen excluding most of the mods.

The server has not died, yes, but it will continue to show signs of dying if things are not changed within the staff team (be it staff members itself, guidelines, morals, etc. Whatever needs to happen). The server had once had a much larger regular amount of players and due to the growing disconnect between admins with mods and players and some mods with players has lessened greatly.

*I do not want CLC to die, this place is a home to me and I love the community. The staff team just needs to sort things out, and soon*
Totally agree, but whats with the "saying the staff doesn't have more important things to do" bit , I think you miss quoted me, I said the staff does have "more important things to do" like you said (tickets etc...), as of the lessening player base, thats a great shame and I had no prior knowledge of that having happened at all. What is clear to see (from chatting with members of staff) is that the server has plans in order to boost the player base and community feel (such as releasing new minigames etc...), as you rightfully said earlier as of the problem with timezones I was mainly raising it since (eg.) an interview may need to be held of which two staff members may need to be required, I ask you what happens if; as I mentioned before, one of the group lives in Europe, and another in Australia or South America (Or anywhere else for that matter). Thats why I raised the problem, since communication verbally is a much prefered method and in some cases may be the only method for people. (Although this is not a blame on timezones this is simply a point I was making :P)

Either way, CLC is definitely not dieing, it just needs a boost and a face-lift (if I can be cheeky I will :D ), as mods go atleast you don't have a bunch of first timer kiddies who will ban you as soon as you say Boo to a chicken :).
Thanks,
_Dubbie_

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KingFroggo
SirFroggo

TheClowner
Site Admin
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Re: Disconnect between Players and Staff

Post by TheClowner » August 23rd, 2017, 11:08 pm

So, first of all - this is in no way a full response to the issues raised here. I don't want anyone to assume that I expect this one reply to be the end of this issue.

First of all, we are well aware of these issues. And for the past couple of days myself and the admins have been starting to work towards sorting these.

I do want to say however, reading everyone's comments on the matter is really useful for us to work out what areas we need to look at more than others. And I'm really glad to see this discussion forming, in a very civilised manner so far.

As mentioned, a lot of these problems have been around quite some time - and I'd like to apologise for not trying to resolve them sooner.

Myself and the rest of the staff are working on trying to find ways to communicate better with our players - especially with the 'behind the scenes' types of things. While in the past we have had plenty of things that did never get sorted for a long time - we're starting to get a lot better on that front. We will be trying to give everyone some more insight into what is actually being worked on 'behind the scenes' soon - but this will take a little time.

I also want to say - if you haven't already - have a read of this post on our website: https://clownercraft.net/drama/ which is at the very least a starting point.

I'm not great at being coherent when I need sleep... so if that didn't make sense or just seemed off - could be me making a poor choice of wording.
Basically, we are listening to your comments, and they are being taken into account as we try to progress. There will be some updated over the next few weeks that should show how we're working to improve on the issues brought up here.

Feel free to call me out on anything that you disagree with, or just doesn't make sense.

Thanks for the continued support for this server!
~Clowner

Anon420
Posts: 4
Joined: August 19th, 2017, 4:11 am

Re: Disconnect between Players and Staff

Post by Anon420 » August 24th, 2017, 1:17 am

Thanks for all the replies. I'm glad I'm not the only person that feels this way. I loved this server dearly, and I still do to this day. I don't want it to die. I don't want any of these things. What I want is to mend the bond between staff and players. I want the poor communication to be resolved. I didn't make this post to create drama, and I'm glad to see it hasn't. I posted this because I want things to change for the better. I want things to be like they were when I joined all these years ago. The server was a great place when the admins, mods, and players all interacted as one unit, when the admins didn't stay vanished for months at a time and the mods had the ability to do so much more with the help of the admins. This is coming from a place of great care, and even though I don't play on this server anymore much, I still want it to thrive.

DeltaParallel
Posts: 16
Joined: June 13th, 2016, 10:00 pm
Location: California

Re: Disconnect between Players and Staff

Post by DeltaParallel » August 24th, 2017, 6:30 am

I feel like a more transparent staff team would help players and mods in the disconnect. Like for example weekly or monthly updates of what was done on the server. Doesnt have to go into detail but something like "Listening to your forum suggestions, will be discussed in next staff meeting" or "Added plugins for a surprise" to keep people in anticipation, and it would let everyone know that the admins and clowner are doing things behind the scenes and are active even if they dont see it. And since staff are allowed to know more than players, the rift could be mended by updating mods on what is going behind the scenes weekly. I also talked to previous ex mods, like myself, and staff meetings apparently used to be weekly/ very common, compared to the one i had when i was a staff member a year ago. I know its hard to get everyone together but even if someone takes extensive/detailed notes about the meeting, those who missed can read and be caught up. I recently came back and I even made my boyfriend buy minecraft to play. I like many others, don't want this server to die.

TheClowner
Site Admin
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Joined: August 30th, 2012, 4:35 pm
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Re: Disconnect between Players and Staff

Post by TheClowner » August 24th, 2017, 7:28 am

Our staff meetings have never been that regular or frequent as far as I remember. We've been saying we should have more for a long time, but they are a bit of a headache to organise with staff in many different timezones.

And i think having regular updates into what we've been doing is a good idea, and we will try to start doing that. And the first of these will probably cover a lot of what we've done in a the past few months.

I've been talking to a few other players about this whole thing on Skype - and most of it seems to come down to the same problems, so you're not alone in your feelings about this.

DeltaParallel
Posts: 16
Joined: June 13th, 2016, 10:00 pm
Location: California

Re: Disconnect between Players and Staff

Post by DeltaParallel » August 25th, 2017, 4:31 am

Thats why there should be a designated note taker at every meeting so people who missed it can read the notes of what was discussed or brought up and then can put it in the staff chat. They should take very detailed notes of peoples responses to topics and the topic at hand.

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